Aquinas's Commentary On The Metaphysics

#152- Salatin’s Polyface Micro: Success with Livestock on a Homestead Scale Part 2

Scott and Karl finish their discussion of Joel Salatin’s book Polyface Micro: Success with Livestock on a Homestead Scale.

Success with domestic livestock does not require large land bases. Salatin’s goal is to raise animals that yield integrity edible food as evidence of his family’s Polyface Farm in Virginia. Scott says, “He’s an efficiency expert.”

Karl continues, “It’s like reading Aristotle. Of course that’s the way logic is! But you didn’t know it until you read it.”

Salatin leaves everything on the table— no trade secrets, no locked doors. Whether you’re a new or seasoned homesteader, you’ll find tips and inspiration as Joel coaches you toward success and abundance. This conversation is brought to you by


Scott Hambrick 0:09
Welcome to the online great books podcast brought to you by online great where we talk about the good life, the great books, great conversation, and great ideas

Brett Veinotte 0:30
Hello, dear listener, this is Brett, I am the producer of the online great books podcast. Welcome back for part two of Scott And Carl’s discussion on Joel Salatin’s book Polyface Micro:  success with livestock on a homestead scale. Well, Wasn’t I right last week when I promised you and inspiring or at the very least a thought provoking discussion about not just domestic livestock, but homesteading in general. In the second half, we’ll pick up right where we left off, no overlap between the two shows. This portion begins with a discussion of solitons warning against a quest for total independence, what kind of interdependence is actually required and where, and then they’ll move on to talking about maximizing efficiency. If you’re in the northeast, or Midwest, I’m sorry, last week, when I assured you it was spring, I’m in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I look out my window this morning and find a blanket of fresh snow. There is a groundhog, who lives about an hour and a half away from here who actually tried to warn us all about this. But not everybody takes that seriously. Here we are. So Spring is coming. It has to. But apparently it is not here quite yet. Maybe that buys you some time to explore more of Joel solitons work. Anyway, here’s the second half of Scott and Karl’s discussion of Polyface. Micro, thank you so much for your time and attention. And we’ll see you next week.

Karl Schudt 2:07
Has this phrase no cultish independence, mutual interdependence versus cultish independence? So you might be inspired, say, Yeah, I’m gonna be completely independent. No, you’re not, you’re not going to be completely independent. I learned a new words, you’re not going to Pharaoh your own sounds. You shouldn’t probably because the sow will kill you. And you’re probably not going to grow the grade for your chicken feed. Because at the scale that you’re doing it, how many acres would you have to plant full of that, and then wheat doesn’t grow ready to be eaten. Cord is the closest that you’ll get to be ready to be eaten. And that has to be processed. And you might grow quote in your garden I’m planning to, you might grow corn in your garden, but you’re not going to be able to process enough of it to feed your livestock, not at any reasonable cost. So you probably ought to buy that from somebody else. So you are less dependent but you’re not independent.

Scott Hambrick 3:13
I just looked it up, Karl. According to Oklahoma State University, Extension Office, life poultry may be slaughtered on farm, and the carcasses may be sold directly to the purchaser if the transaction occurs at the farm location. This provision is limited to 1000 chickens, 250 turkeys, or a combination per year per farm where four chickens equals one turkey.

Karl Schudt 3:36
Four chickens equal one turkey,

Scott Hambrick 3:40
It’s stupid.

Karl Schudt 3:44
what do you have to do? If we go over 1000 Then the FDA shows up.

Scott Hambrick 3:50
Now you just have to kill them and bury him with a backhoe or compost.

Karl Schudt 3:55
I like chapter five. On efficiency. Every action has a technique that makes it more efficient. It’s worthwhile thinking about this and I was thinking about your was it Uncle Henry who says better to make mistakes in your mind before you sit you think about the thing for a while. I can’t remember exactly what he said.

Scott Hambrick 4:15
Now, he said so many things. But yeah, you think about it five times as long as it takes to do it.

Karl Schudt 4:22
Yeah, that way you don’t make the mistake. In reality, you make a mistake in your mind, you think how could I do this stupidly? Then think of ways that you could do it intelligently. So there’s a lot of little tips here. My acreage will be smaller. But even so it takes a long time to walk across it. So you think well if I’m going out there for this, what can I bring with me? Never go from stall to field or field to stall empty. Have a mobile milking trailer. You got to the cow you know bring the cow in because, you know how long would that take? Every day if you have a milk Cow, figure out how to make your chores easier. So if feeding your chickens takes you half an hour Well, for one day, that’s no big deal but over a year, that’s a lot of time. Was 180 hours, something like that? Yeah. 15 minutes off of that. Yeah, he’s

Scott Hambrick 5:21
just an efficiency expert.

Karl Schudt 5:24
Chaos is expensive. He says on page 65 For sure.

Scott Hambrick 5:28
How many books did you buy after having read this? I bought three

Karl Schudt 5:35
I haven’t bought them yet cuz I have to cart them right. But I put some notes in there. Like the compost

Scott Hambrick 5:41
compost book, The Lean farm by Hartman small-scale poultry flock, and then the rations book, the feed and rations, text about all this?

Karl Schudt 5:56
Did you get the veterinary manual, the Merck thing

Scott Hambrick 5:58
have not, I need to at least got a chapter on layout, my place is not laid out well. And just can’t be the house site is up here on top of the highest point on the property. There’s not a lot of room up here on top of this hill, where the house is kind of great view. But I’m not gonna have the bar and the chickens, chickens, the etc, etc, etc. Up here,

Karl Schudt 6:27
you might need to care about the hobbit house, right? So what I need to do, maybe you take that to the other, take that to the back acres and put a sleeping bag and

Scott Hambrick 6:35
I’ll tell you what I am going to do as part of reading this. I want to put an outhouse down there. So just below our hill at our undisclosed location is the water well, garden, greenhouse, Orchard stuff, tractor implements. And there will be more down there. I’m all for peeing on the compost pile done it many times. But sometimes you don’t want to do that. While I end up hotfooting it up that hill. Back to the house. I want to put it I’m gonna put an outhouse down there. So to get rid of the unnecessary nine o’clock bathroom break, you know, drink your coffee, start moving around, doing things, doing some deep knee bends. And then it’s comes knocking Carl. Yep, yeah. And then I go back up to the house. And then it’s a law and then I go back up to the house. Then I pour another cup of coffee and I sit and chat with charity for a little while. And then the phone rings and it’s on. And then we talk. And next thing I know it’s time to eat lunch, just because I had to go download.

Karl Schudt 7:45
So you just get it. Are you gonna build like the little house with the hole cut out?

Scott Hambrick 7:50
Oh, yeah, no, I’m yeah, I’m serious about them. We put it outhouse down there.

Karl Schudt 7:53
You’re gonna put it on skids. So you could move it.

Scott Hambrick 7:56
I’ve got a post auger. I’ve got a postdoc or I can I can drill a big hole, I can drill a 30 inch hole, four foot deep. We’ll put it over that. And I don’t plan on like filling that hole, Karl, I shouldn’t have to move it.

Karl Schudt 8:15
Well, you shouldn’t have a

Scott Hambrick 8:16
plan. Would it be like in the cartoons when there’s a geyser and you’re like sitting on top of that, except it’s the other way? Yeah, so the layout on chat, the chapter on layout kind of upset me. You know, we’ve made an aesthetic choice to put this house on top of this hill. So we have this view and we can see the whole Yeah, it’s a it’s a lovely sight, but it’s not a great site to have a farmstead one, we should have put the we should put the if we cared about that we would put the house down where the greenhouses, you know, down below the hill, but yeah, whatever aesthetic choices. We suffer for beauty, Karl, we suffer for beauty.

Karl Schudt 9:04
Of course, it’s only appropriate. The neat thing that he does that the old timey farmers couldn’t have done so 10 acres enough guy Edward Morris could not have built as easily mobile buildings. Which if you build it light enough and put wheels under it or skids you can you can move your stuff around and you can have pastored rabbits that never leave their enclosure. Yeah.

Scott Hambrick 9:32
For example, yeah, that’s the brilliance of this guy.

Karl Schudt 9:35
which protects you from predators. Yeah, it’s it’s pretty cool.

Scott Hambrick 9:40
There are people that pasture chickens, and they move a an electrified mesh fence every day, and then put the chickens up at night and he actually does some of that with his laying hands. But for his for his rabbits and for broiler chickens. He puts him in this low slung, movable shelter. And they’re protected from predators at all times. And he doesn’t have to move the fence. He just moved through a little shelter, and they have sun and shade and water and feed and grass and the healing chlorophyll in the grass at all times. It’s just, it’s just so elegant. And once you see it, you’re like, Oh, of course. That’s the way to do it. Of course, that’s the way.

Karl Schudt 10:26
Yep. It’s like reading Aristotle, you know? Of course, that’s the way law. Yeah. But you didn’t know it till you read it. So it’s cool. If you don’t want to read the book. I mean, this is the best use of YouTube that you could do, I think are one of the best uses of YouTube is to follow this kind of homestead revival. And just watch these guys out of their farms and see what they’re doing even if you never do

Scott Hambrick 10:52
it. It’s pretty wholesome entertainment. Even if you don’t want to,

Karl Schudt 10:56
yeah, how did you like that no live power in the bar. He forbids live power lines at the

Scott Hambrick 11:02
fire danger.

Karl Schudt 11:05
Because it makes sense.

Scott Hambrick 11:07
Makes sense. He says, again, you know, you want to have everything ready for your chicks. PAGE 78 We will not go on to a place with animals until it has all weather access, a corral and headgate good loadout area fencing and everywhere available waterlines. This is the stage that I am in. And it’s been it’s really frustrating. Because it doesn’t feel like you’re getting anything done. I mean, I mean, of course, I know that I am. But I can’t eat all those fence posts.

Karl Schudt 11:41
Well, for those who are getting into it, as adults, he says somewhere the average lifespan of these things about five years. People say yeah, back to the land, I’m gonna raise chickens. And then five years later they’re selling it at it’s this sort of thing that gets them off. Because you’re not doing the prep work that you need to do before you start, you have to have your fencing set up, you have to have your water set up. If you’re going to do ruminants at the corral the headgate. You know, you need to get this stuff. And it’s going to be a chunk of money. But if

Scott Hambrick 12:18
Lord, Lord is a chunk, and you see that used sheep head gate I sent you. There, they’re out there, I saw that they’re out there. I was surprised I saw several used use chutes and head gates for for sheep out there. But now he’s right, I wouldn’t have I mean, I’ve been working on water and fencing. But having a sorting facility and a head gate, I probably wouldn’t have had that yet before. And I would have had cattle show up and put them in a temporary corral before I put them out on the electric fence. And I’m going to I’m going to believe him here. And I’m going to continue to believe to bleed the money. He doesn’t say that in here. We talked about it briefly for the chicken thing while ago. But if you’ve got to build all the fence, you’ve got to build all the water infrastructure. You need a handling facility. You need chicken processing facility, you need all of that before you bring the animals. That’s a big capital outlay. And you can build as much of it right out of scraps and salvage that you can like he does it and you still got hundreds if not 1000s of hours in it before an animal shows up, and that’s, that’s rough.

Karl Schudt 13:37
Yeah. On the other hand, so if you want to do smaller scale, you know, I was talking to Melissa is like, you know, if we just did chickens successfully, that would be a big, that would be a thing that was Oh, you bet. All right. You know, that would be the outlay for the chickens is not what the outlay is for the cattle.

Scott Hambrick 13:59
But would you like me to share some of my outlay? Would you like me to share some of my numbers for boiler shelters? Sure. Sam Walton says, Build this boiler shelter. Here’s how he does it. Blah, blah, blah. I’m not going to reinvent the wheel. I’m gonna do it exactly like he does it. I bought his book Polyface designs, which has perfect instructions for building his shelter. The book, when I bought it was $99. Alright, so I’m $100 into my boiler shelter. Okay. He says build it out of pressure treated lumber. I went and bought lumber he has and he’s guys he is so stingy. When he tells you what to buy. you’re minimizing the scrap and he shows you what the scrap is in the book so you know what the waste is going to be. So I went to the lumber yard and bought lumber for two broiler shelters per Joel Salatin. That is enough broiler shelters for 150 birds was $375 The fasteners cost me another about 25 bucks for the screws. The sheet metal, the sheet metal. Now he says build them out of aluminum aluminium, because you want them lie and so forth so far, whatever. Well, I ordered the aluminum I went to go pick it up and it was wrong it was actually steel. Well I had some corrugated steel here on my place. And I elected to go ahead and put the steel on it because I know that my wife’s dead lift is bigger than solitons and will be okay. So I built it with scrap steel corrugated steel, but if I had not that aluminum for two shelters was 700 Wait a minute, the receipts actually laying right here on my desk? $683. So wow,

Karl Schudt 15:53
how much is a steel?

Scott Hambrick 15:56
You know, I don’t know the answer to that.

Karl Schudt 15:58
I mean, I know you had it, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna fake your

Scott Hambrick 16:01
it to be 150 to $200 If you had to go by the corrugated steel, chicken wire,

Karl Schudt 16:10
yeah, my deadlift is not as good as your wife’s,

Scott Hambrick 16:14
comparatively the chicken wire, but I think I can lift it. You know, you can’t buy just enough chicken wire for two shelters, you’re gonna end up buying enough for more. So I ended up with about $150 in chicken wire. So we’re now at about 1400 50 bucks. And then after doing some more talking to folks around here and research, we’re like, oh, these raccoons will absolutely eat through the chicken wire. You need hardware cloth. And they said you probably actually need hardware cloth. Oh, the chicken wire. So I actually I actually at an auction bought a real hardware cloth for $7, which is unbelievable. I mean that you can’t figure on that. That should have been another $300? Probably. So these shelters are probably roughly $800 apiece. So you mean you’re right? Didn’t you know scale makes the numbers lower. But the price per animal is still pretty nasty. I haven’t bought the plus all drinkers and any of the feeders yet. And I have not bought the heaters for the boilers. Yet.

Karl Schudt 17:26
On the other hand, it’s like buying your squat rack. Oh, yeah. It’s a chunk of money, but you buy it once. You know what are you gonna have to rebuild the shelter?

Scott Hambrick 17:37
Yeah, he claims he has shelters, he’s run for 20 years with some repair. So that much will be good plucking machine 350 bucks. My buddy Carlo and I made a scholar had, you know, a couple 100 in that. So that’s another 500 will be let’s say roughly $2,500 in to build to grow 150 chickens. So our infrastructure cost is almost $17 A bird for that first batch. You know, you want to amortize it out for a long time. But it hurts. There’s I mean, I’m not trying to discourage anybody but but it’s just the way it is.

Karl Schudt 18:17
Well, if you wanted to do it smaller, you can, you know, there are ways to scale it down, which is kind of what the book is about. Yeah. He talks at the end. He’s got this chart at the very end of the book. How much square footage you need per ticket. Mm hmm. It goes down to like if you wanted to, this is how much you need. Yeah. You probably wouldn’t do to broilers, because what’s the point you would do leg heads? Yeah, I get your eggs.

Scott Hambrick 18:44
I would add to the book, cost per bird for infrastructure, if I and I know why he didn’t do that. And that’s why I’m trying to do it right now. If I amortize my cost out for one batch of birds, roughly $17. That’s for 150 birds. If you were going to amortize your cost out over 50 birds. The first batch is going to cost you I think probably more like $40 A bird because you’ve got the the processing equipment in there. So you can scale it down. But it’s gonna be it’s gonna be rough. I like how he’s anti Well, girl.

Karl Schudt 19:26
Yep. And I just I bought well, so look at that.

Scott Hambrick 19:30
I’ve got one myself. No, it’s got good points.

Karl Schudt 19:33
I mean, the well is for security. The well is so that if the stuff hits the fan, you can still get some water. But, you know, he’s got a point and I have a lot of roof and collecting the rainwater seems a good idea. There’s no creeks out, that I’ll be able to use. So you use the well you’re sucking water out of the aquifer. You should just turn it on. Right, keep it running. Probably you should. Out here in suburbia. We have water restrictions in the summer, because you have to water your lawn because the ordinances require that you have a well maintained lawn. And if you don’t water your lawn, occasionally it does get dry out here and it all dies. So you have to pour water on your grass. Well, there’s not enough water. So we have restrictions, you could only water your lawn on certain days. Okay, now you drive around this neighborhood. And you see, you look at the roof and you see gutters and you see the water from the gutters. Where does it go?

Scott Hambrick 20:43
Down the storm drain into Lake Michigan,

Karl Schudt 20:46
right? If you do like my grandma did, and you had a rain barrel, you get a lot of water out of that. Maybe you collect the water off your roof. And you use that first. Because you got to have a roof. It’s got to be impermeable, because you that’s the way houses are. Which means it collects a bunch of water. Maybe you catch it at that point. But you have to do a little bit because the first bit of rainwater, this is like my dad’s a civil engineer. And I remember him telling me about this when I was a kid, the first batch of the water off the streets is really bad. It’s got all the petroleum in it. Well, the first batch off your roof isn’t so bad. It’s just got leaves and shit, pardon my language, leaves and stuff in it. But there’s ways to get around that you put a little holding tank. And so the first the first gush of water goes into that, when that fills up the rest of it’s pretty clean. And he’s got pictures of the book of how to do it. And I think for sure, I’m going to do that and get whatever water I can. It just makes sense. I mean, imagine, imagine what this suburban area could do. If they encouraged gave a subsidy whatever however city governments do it encouraged catching your rainwater. Yep. How’s that for a great idea.

Scott Hambrick 22:15
I think that between my my house with the covered porch, and the Big Shot building here, in my 44 inch a year rainfall biome I live in, I could catch almost an acre foot a year off of it. That’s a storage problem. I can catch way more than I could possibly store problem of

Karl Schudt 22:37
abundance. Well, you could have the runoff, go to your barrel, and then when that fills up, what you don’t want is quick water. Taking your soil away, so maybe you put your garden you put a garden where that water is gonna go right. And have it come out at a gentle grade kind of sheet irrigate your, your tomatoes. Yeah, I don’t know, I’m thinking like salad. You know, it’s it’s what could you do that that is better than what you’re doing?

Scott Hambrick 23:06
Yeah, there’s nothing that is not under scrutiny or for improvement by this guy. So wonderful. It’s a wonderful attitude to have towards life, you know, total, you know, continual learning and continual improvement in this guy’s life. It’s pretty awesome. Chapter Eight sanitation. I like this one. Here’s what you need to know about the sanitation chapter. Move the animals. If you get them away from their poop, they tend to not get sick. If you get them in the sun, they tend to not get sick. If they eat chlorophyll, they tend to not get sick. He has 1000s and 1000s of 1000s of animals, no vet bills. One of the reasons is this. And the other is is genetics. You know, he’s not going to have a sheep or a cow that can’t have its own calf. But you know, that’s only humane in my opinion. Well, yeah,

Karl Schudt 24:06
you’re the lion. You know, you’re the one that is going to eat the defective antelope. And it’s good for the antelope.

Scott Hambrick 24:16
Greg Judy says you’ve got to be the predator on your farm.

Karl Schudt 24:21
Yeah, that’s a hard thing to think about when you’re when you think that your dogs cats or your kids that you have to be the predator. Well, you do.

Scott Hambrick 24:30
I think I’ve told the parasite resistant sheep story on the show about Greg god. Did I not? I don’t know. Yeah, well, something else he did. Something else he did was anytime he had a sheep that got out of the fence. He did what Saligan calls puts wheels under it. But it’s on trying to take it down and get rid of it instantly. Yeah, so not only did he call for parasite resistance, he also called for docility and hurt ability. So if any sheep ever even stepped over the polywire they were gone instantly. neighbor would call and say hey, there’s three year sheep on my porch. He put him in the trailer and take him to the auction immediately. And as a result all these years later, you know, salads and says that you can keep Greg Judy sheep in with ball of a ball of yarn. They just don’t stray. He talks about his son Daniel, and their rabbit genetics, that a lot of trouble with their rabbits dying. You know, he was having I think 50% losses early on in developing their rabbit genetics, but now they’ve got these these rabbits that can be pastured, have an economical ration, still get fat, have their own babies don’t eat the babies, etc.

Karl Schudt 25:55
I found out rabbits eat their babies and never do so that we’re watching. We’re watching the video on rabbits and when you process those broilers, I’m going to need to come over because I need to I need to do this. We need to kill a chicken or two or 10 So looking at the rabbit shelter rabbits so cute because we we are we are babbles we react to babbles differently. And we have easter bunnies and Bugs Bunny and all of that and and so you think gosh, not sure I could do this for a rabbit. But this will help do Lister rabbits. Rabbits under stress will eat their babies. Okay, so they are carnivorous. They will eat their children. Okay. Also, they don’t have the gut to digest grass. Yeah. So the way they digest grass is they send it through two times. And they don’t have it come back up like the cow does. So they don’t chew their cud, or actually, they do chew their cud, but they chew it after it comes out their rear end, you get what I’m saying. So this could get some of the myth of the cute cuddly rabbits they are aliens, okay. It’s probably okay to eat them. Yeah, after they’ve had a good life. You could eat a rabbit.

Scott Hambrick 27:17
I have killed and clean more rabbits than any other animal. But I’ve never raced them, they’ve all been wild ones. And you shoot them at a distance used to catch them in box traps. So they’d go in, you put some bait in there and they go in their head first. And adores, they step on a trigger actually push a stick, which is a trigger, the door falls down behind them while they’re alive. So you go out in the morning and the door shut. And there’s a rabbit in there and the box trap you make that so that it’s not big enough for him to turn around in there. pick that thing up and slide that door up and grabbing by the legs. And like I said on the tree. Yep. And the first time you do it, you probably won’t get it right. And then you got to carry on properly, because they’ll all the sphincters aren’t working anymore, and they’ll get pee on you and all this. You know it’s a somebody listens. If somebody is listening, and they’re horrified that you whack whack a mole on the tree. How do you want to do it? What do you want to do?

Karl Schudt 28:28
You want your animals raised in a factory where their beaks are taken off and they so that they won’t Peck each other to death and never see the sun for their entire lives. And then they come wrapped in a Tyson chicken wrapper. That’s what you right? That’s, that’s more humane. Right? Or you want your fake meat that is made from genetically modified soybean that’s been produced on a monoculture farm that’s had nitrogen poured into it so that it kills everything living on that soil.

Scott Hambrick 28:59
And then your daughter has precocious puberty at age eight. You know, nice move. Way to go.

Karl Schudt 29:07
Yeah. Steve Irwin had a quote about that somebody asked him, Steve Irwin was the wildlife guy, Australian, I think. They asked him why aren’t you a vegetarian? And he had this really good answer. But it had to do with the variety of life that you have on a farm that produces meat and dairy versus the monotony of life that you have on a farm that produces only your vegetative food. It’s like because there’s the cow here and the pig here, the chicken and, you know, there’s none of that on all those other farms. What I’m saying is you are a bringer of death. sensitive person out there who’s feeling for the rabbits you are a bringer of death by the fact that you live and eat. So you just have to choose where it’s going to be.

Scott Hambrick 29:57
And you’re probably a bigger bringer of death in the deer hunter neighbor Mine, Brian who I’ve come to love you assholes. People, they just don’t know they need to think about it. You know, the thing about this is that these people are so passionate about this ridiculous view of theirs. And it doesn’t bear up under the least a bit of scrutiny. I have almost no sympathy for

Karl Schudt 30:27
him. Well, I don’t care if you don’t eat meat, but you’re still a killer. Because you’re alive. And everything that’s alive is a killer.

Scott Hambrick 30:37
You ready for some more hot fencing talk, Karl? Sure. Well, chapter 13 fencing. Um, I tell you what, I’m worried about fencing. You know, the gold standard for ruminant animals is woven wire fence top with barbed wire. He says if you’ve got goats, if it won’t hold water, it won’t hold goats. I can confirm that we had goats when I was a kid. You can’t keep them in. It’s got to be supermax facility. They’re unbelievable. I don’t want to put a woven wire fence in. One it’s very expensive to we’re in a succession area here where everything wants to go back to forest and keeping that fence row clear, would almost require a round or something like that on it to you know, keep trees from growing up in it. And I don’t want to do that. So, you know, Greg Judy he agrees that that’s the gold standard. But in practice, you look around his place and a lot of his most of his perimeter fences are five strands of hot wire. Actually, they’re not all hot. They’ll be you know, hot ground hot ground hot ground. And I was reading this and it’s worrying me. Greg, JD just put out another video about fencing the other day. And he said, he mentioned five or six strands of hot wire. As a perimeter fence. I’m gonna put in six strands. An extra strand is not very expensive at all. It’ll cost me you know, around this. Yeah, they already got the post. It’s gonna cost me $200 Put another strand around this place. I ordered all my stuff from timeless coral. Their prices went up since you did not a lot but they did go up. And they recommend recommended for me and nine jewel Cyclops fence charger. Well, I doubled it. As I want to be able to throw a lightning bolt all the way across this place. It costs an extra $300 to double the the energy of the fence charger. Why wouldn’t I do that in the in the big picture of how much the fence cost? You know, this will allow me to put up all the poly net I want you all the fence cross fencing I would ever, ever, ever want, if like anywhere on the place there to get 8000 volts anywhere on the place. So I don’t want animals out, man. I’ve chased goats and cattle. It’s miserable. I hate it.

Karl Schudt 33:05
I like the egg mobile following the sheep. I think I like that idea. So you would have the sheep in an oval of electric fence that I think and have out there for three days. So you got to bring water to him. But then he moved the sheep CD two of those ovals. You move the sheep and you put the chickens in. And you just keep doing that they follow each other around the phone. Yeah, that’s a great, I like that idea. I think that might be

Scott Hambrick 33:38
a winner. Yeah. And you don’t have to move poultry netting either. It could be because I’m worried about that two boilers behind the chickens or behind the sheep, you know? Yeah, I like it very much. Another thing? I don’t know that much of this was revolutionary for me, because I’ve read so many of his books, you know, a guy in the our telegram chat or off stream was like, What’s this guy’s racket? And I’m like, I didn’t respond to because everybody just assumes that anybody that’s in public now has some sort of a grift going on. This guy doesn’t have a grift like nobody makes money on books. He doesn’t have an Instagram channel. He doesn’t have a YouTube channel. Like he writes articles for Stockman, grass farmer and acres USA magazine. In these books, he just wants people to do good, you know, like he’s not making any money off of this. It might be a little bit but whatever. But anyway, so I’ve read so much of his stuff and but one of the things that I saw here and maybe it’s in the salad bar beef book was about the Keyline irrigation. If you develop the water sources that he recommends where you you’re capturing runoff into strategically placed ponds, you’re capturing, you know, rainwater off of the roof, you’re doing all the things you’re supposed to do. You can irrigate with that water with zero ecological negative impact. He says, you know, if you get this cheap mobile irrigation system that was developed in New Zealand, they call it K line, you could extend the grazing days, or the animal density on your grazing land. So for the particularly for the the micro type, the homesteader scale. This is a huge, huge thing, you know, you’ve got 10 acres over there, that, you know, maybe you can in Oklahoma, maybe you can carry four cow calf pairs on it, maybe? Well, if you can catch some runoff, and then irrigate that with K line, you might be able to, you might be able to go up by a third. In animal density, that’s huge. And not only are you going up an animal density a third, which means the revenue goes up a third, you’re improving the quality of the soil by a third more every year. And probably actually more, probably more, because you’re getting a third more cow pies. Plus, they’re trampling more events, and so on. That is a huge, huge thing. I had heard of it, but hadn’t really read about it and thought about it. But that’s on my list to do.

Karl Schudt 36:27
Yeah, I was looking at that I couldn’t get I couldn’t get prices on Michaela and stuff. Might might. Yeah, a little internet search. But that was pretty intriguing. Yeah, I mean, that’s, you know, rather than this is hot irrigation talk rather than having to sink

Scott Hambrick 36:46
or buy another five acres, you know, to go up by a third in animal count. Yeah, you and I were talking on the phone and you bring in you just in passing? You’re like, well, I can just use water garden hoses and sprinklers. Yeah, you know, on a six on 10 Acres is 620 feet square in there, right? 660 Square 669. That’s pretty long garden hose pole. Yeah. But that’s not that’s not a moonshot to put to use, you know, three quarter inch hoses on reels and irrigate your place. If you know, so, you know what, you got five acres and some sheep, or, you know, or 10 acres and some sheep and a milk cow. I mean, this, this is a huge thing, particularly if you’re not depleting an aquifer and you’ve got your water.

Karl Schudt 37:38
Right, not sure I get enough from the well for that. Or not, I’m not sure I get enough from the roof for that, but

Scott Hambrick 37:45
there’s a pond on that North fence I bet you could siphon out of and he had never now his ponds, he has a different attitude towards ponds, the people around here, he has a different attitude towards everything and people around here. He says that you should never exit a drought with a full pond. I don’t know that anybody around here would pump their farm pond empty. Because you know, they like to catch catfish and bass out of it, you know, they just would never consider doing that but not Joel Salatin and he’s right. He’s right, pump that sucker out and take care of those animals with excellent forage and put them in the head them into the winter. With perfect body condition, you know, I haven’t looked into pricing Keyline stuff and I’m, I’m always off, that’ll be, I’ll actually probably do, I will do that after I have my livestock here. But that I will get that done.

Karl Schudt 38:41
So I was thinking about this, the respecting that the chicken is of the chicken and the pigness of the pig. Alright, so I beat me I start to think

Scott Hambrick 38:51
I’m trying to respect the whiteness of my wife. Exactly. And the

Karl Schudt 38:55
humaneness of the human. So I start to think that they need to be managed in order to do well, they need restrictions in order to do well that animals always eat dessert first, he says, Okay, so this is, it’s a good way to understand the problem though, just letting your if you have cattle just letting them out and your whole pastor, because they’ll just eat dessert, and all the desert will die. Then they’ll eat the next good thing and all of that will die. And so you have to manage the need to be managed by predators or by you the predator. And so I started thinking about humans as I do, and whether humans always eat to dessert first. And I think on the main we do and that in the absence of hardship or restriction or management, we don’t do very well. Is that a revolutionary thought?

Scott Hambrick 39:56
It didn’t used to be.

Karl Schudt 39:59
I was listening into McKay’s show, as I do, and he had some guy on talking about the lack of physical education in schools. And I suppose that’s a problem if you have your kids in the schools. But they spent so many hours on screens. They’re picking desert, which is literal desert, and fortnight and Call of Duty. And you can see it in the little humans that you see. If you actually get to see any in your location. They’re not doing very well. Predators.

Scott Hambrick 40:46
Well, wait, wait, wait a minute, somebody.

Karl Schudt 40:48
They don’t necessarily need somebody eating it, but they might need somebody making fun of them at the dodgeball. Your kids need some hardship. We all need some hot ready for him to be mad at you for a while. It’s coming. I think it’s coming. Always mad at you. You take the hits.

Scott Hambrick 41:05
Yeah, Carla, he’s so good. He’s so lukewarm on here. He guys wouldn’t believe the stuff he says to me on the phone. You wouldn’t believe it the good cop? Sometimes I’m just shocked.

Karl Schudt 41:18
Oh, come on. There’s a real problem. The we care about the chickens being free range chickens. And we don’t care about the humans. Well, what is the nature of the human? What? What is a good human life? Well, if you want to know more about those questions, or at least ask those questions better, you could join us and online great Where we will send you books. And you can sit in seminars with some other similarly inclined people and tried to figure out what exactly the good life is. It’s an

Scott Hambrick 41:51
echo chamber, you should join us.

Karl Schudt 41:53
It’s worth asking.

Scott Hambrick 41:57
I just bought a copy of the Merck veterinary manual fourth edition for $12. How about that?

Karl Schudt 42:04
When did the fourth edition come out?

Scott Hambrick 42:06

Karl Schudt 42:08
When’s the fourth of the 72?

Scott Hambrick 42:11
I typically don’t like to buy books after about 1960. But anyway, I bought the 1973 73 edition. So it’s fine. Yeah, that’d

Karl Schudt 42:23
be good reading. Put it in the bath. Yeah. And read about Blackfoot. His thoughts on disease are also worth thinking about. So he doesn’t have vet bills, or at least not very many. Because he keeps his animals moving. He keeps them sanitary. He gives them good food. And for the most part, they don’t get sick. And of course, you could apply that as I do and say well, what about the humans? If you keep them moving? Keep them sanitary. And feed them the right stuff. For the most part, they’ll be healthy.

Scott Hambrick 42:59
What seems like it. I don’t think that he ascribes to the germ theory of disease either, Karl.

Karl Schudt 43:08
Well, there may in fact be there are germs. And it may in fact be that the dysentery germ, which is a bacteria, right? Yeah, amoeba is present when you get dysentery.

Scott Hambrick 43:21
But you know why you got dysentery is you were unable to deal with that. Because you You shattered your water supply. Yeah. Yeah. Or your diet was right diet was wrong. You were not sanitary. You’ve read a little Hippocrates. Yes. For him, it’s about diet. It’s about exercise. It’s about balance. And I think Sam Walton is Hippocratic in that way. You know, he wants their diet and rations to be right. He wants them to live according to their proper nature. And he wants them to get chlorophyll and sunlight. And in one point in here, he talks about he drinks out of the water that the the watering trough. If it’s not good enough for him, it’s not good enough for the cattle, any fingers that will make him harder anyway. Did you see that? I

Karl Schudt 44:08
gotta tell you a story. Yeah. I have to tell you a story about my own. So we went out good because it’s the thing that Christians of the Eastern persuasion do is we bless large bodies of water. And if we’re really hardcore about it, you do it on January sixth you get on Theophany and they will throw across in the water and the young men of the parish will dive in and get it well we didn’t do that. I was watching some, some some Russia do it on YouTube. It looked pretty fun. But so we blessed Lake Michigan, so Lake Michigan is now holy, we had the bishop out we did it. So if you live in that region, you are drinking holy water good for you. So we get this water out of the out of the Lake and you know, it hasn’t been treated, it hasn’t had anything done to it. And you’re traditionally supposed to drink the holy water and the bishop who was from Slovakia saying, you’re going to drink? Don’t you have faith and so I drank but then like for three days, I was worried I was gonna get sick from untreated lake water from the cleanest lake in the world. And I didn’t

Scott Hambrick 45:27
we still a lot of pond fishing when I was a young man. We would leave the house in the morning and take a little tackle box and your fishing pole and maybe some something to eat. And I got a water jug with a like a quart water jug, you know that little spout, you turn up and it’s got a bail on it, you know, whole ice water? Well, sometimes it’s hot, and we’d go and you’d run out of water. And my cousin Mitchell used to lay on his belly and drink out of these farm ponds that the cows waited in. And they were just muddy and they had cow flop in him and he would just flop on his gut on his belly and drink out of the pond. And I never knew that he ever got sick from it. I never did it. I would never do that. But he he did it all the time. And every time he did it, it shocked me. He looks like his dad is Indian. He got a lot of Indian from Plains Indian too, by the way. He got a lot of that from that side. He looks like Lou Diamond Phillips. When Obama came out, we thought it was Mitchell.

Karl Schudt 46:37
Lou Diamond is one quarter I think well.

Scott Hambrick 46:41
Mitchell diamond Mitchell’s a bunch. He’s a great guy, too. I haven’t talked to him a long time. But he’s a good guy. Anyway, salads and doesn’t deny that there are bacteria. And he doesn’t deny the kuksa dioses is a problem in in chickens. But the problem isn’t the bacteria. The problem is all of the other aspects of the chicken’s life that then would make them susceptible to CoQ siderosis. You know, we’re bathed in bacteria all the time, 24 hours a day. And we mostly don’t get sick. So it’s not the bacteria. It’s something else. One thing about him not having that bills. Well, two things. One, he calls. He calls and we don’t call humans. And then the other thing is, even among those that he doesn’t call, they don’t live to old age they get eaten. Aging is a disease process. We don’t tend to the boomers can’t tend to stay on that they think they’re going to live forever and that they’re going to be cured. And then, you know, whatever. But aging is a disease process. And then then, as a result of that aging, then we are I think susceptible to different infections and so on. But that is not a factor that Polyface farms.

Karl Schudt 48:10
Yeah, well, something’s gonna get you eventually. But if you imagine that humans were chickens and you think of the the typical human diseases if you’re over 50 You know, what do you have? Well, got a touch of the diabetes. Right? The sugar, you have? You’re obese. You’re weak. You know what else happens? Typically? Well, how much of that is your lifestyle? How much of that is because you have been living in a human factory farm? Yeah, a lot. Yes, you’re gonna live forever. You’re gonna die of something. But you could be a healthier human. If you live more according to the humaneness of the human it’s very frustrating. To me, I am 50 years old. I am I I don’t consider myself to be adequately. I don’t know. I guess I’m pretty strong. But amongst my age cohort. Yeah, I’m like Apollo. You know, it’s ridiculous. Come on guys up your game. Now we know how to do that. And and if you’re interested in strength coaching, you can find either of us and get some help with that.

Scott Hambrick 49:36
Making more stronger.

Karl Schudt 49:39
Yeah, where could they find you Scott? Oh

Scott Hambrick 49:40
my gosh. Barbell hyphen. Do I have my own URL there?

Karl Schudt 49:52
I don’t know. What do I think it’s Shambrook? It’s probably

Scott Hambrick 49:57
yes slash S. Reagan in Then Carl’s is the same. You can go go check that out. Yeah, we’ll help you get get a whole lot stronger. Oh, sure enough, there it is. I typed in SEM brick in there. Yeah, look at that. Look at the head on that. That’d be damn.

Karl Schudt 50:18
You could have him say if you like this podcast, you could have him talking personally to you. Three, four times a week. What would you say to them,

Scott Hambrick 50:29
get your knees out, reach back with your ass. Hips, hips, hips. I say that a lot. Stop giving up on your deadlift, you got to have five full stop giving up you get you didn’t even try. Dude, you didn’t even try. Look, we talked about this last deadlift session. You’ve got to give it all your effort for five full seconds, not five barbell seconds, which is 12345. But five Mississippi 12345. If you give up quicker than that. I’m going to do a blog post about you. I’m going to name you. That’s the kind of stuff you get.

Karl Schudt 51:15
That I tell you, dear listener, that might be exactly what you need. Because I kind of need that because I I hate that list. I hate him.

Scott Hambrick 51:24
Steve, we talked about this last week. You gave up on it. I can’t get you strong. If you won’t pull on the bar. I can’t do it. I’m over here. You’re over there. You are in the rain with the barbell you have to do it. I know you can. You just don’t know you can give yourself a chance to show yourself that you can actually do it. I know you can. It’s only five pounds more than the last successful session you had. And it’s only 225 by the way. That’s what you get. This is only something that people would want

Karl Schudt 52:08
they should

Scott Hambrick 52:09
I don’t know what

Karl Schudt 52:10
people if you have listened to this podcast, and decided that you need a predator to keep you well, Scott’s your guy.

Scott Hambrick 52:19
And Carl, Carl’s this much sweeter. Yeah, and you get me to and I’ll

Karl Schudt 52:23
probably talk about Aristotle or something. Something stupid. But that will get you strong.

Scott Hambrick 52:31
Yeah, I’ve got a bunch of good guys. And some good ladies. I’ve got no three, four ladies for ladies start now. Yeah, I’ve got one lady who throws pots. So she’s,

Karl Schudt 52:48
yeah, that’s what they call it. She doesn’t actually throw pots. So she’s got

Scott Hambrick 52:51
the it’s like in Ghost where she’s got a pottery wheel. And she sits there and, you know, squeezes this clay all day. You know, Patrick Swayze comes behind it. And Carl it is so hard to keep her from having all kinds of tendinitis. This is from like her neck to her into her fingers. You know, because all that repetitive motion that she does all that squeezing and all that. But she’s a she’s a petite person. So we’ve managed to keep her press up and kind of keep the tendinitis stuff at bay. And she’s and I still got got people with interesting, interesting lives that we still we still get them strong. I don’t know. But that’s part of the your humaneness despite what modernity would have us believe, you know, you have to have some measure of strength to be able to interact with true reality, which is not what you see in bug world. And people benefit from it. Yeah, well, you

Karl Schudt 53:54
gotta homestead yourself.

Scott Hambrick 53:56
You know that cable I told you about I found curl. Well, no, no. I found in the woods. Like five eights. It’s actually probably not cable. It’s probably guy wire. Looks like cable. It’s galvanized. It’s probably six strands. And links about 75 feet long, coiled up, laying on the ground. In the Woods has trees grown up in it. Leaf leaders covered it there’s a root there are roots grown up in it. There are probably 100 of those links. coiled up in the coil is about five feet across. I’ve gotten most of them out of the ground and stacked up. You know how many deadlift reps that was? I mean, you know, think, think about reaching down and grabbing this and it’s got roots around and you pull on it and it doesn’t move. And then you find what’s holding it you cut that route with a Maddix And then you pull on it again. And then there’s another route. And then finally at some point you pull on and it comes out of the ground. Two thirds of them were max effort poles, because it stops. Oh my Lord. And then I came back in here and the next day and I had to pull a deadlift. I squatted just fine. But when it came to deadlift, I could even set my back at 275. I could even set my back, it was just smoked. I didn’t I didn’t deadlift that day. I didn’t deadlift that day. I could even set my back. Holy smokes. It was rough.

Karl Schudt 55:34
That’s what your deadlift for. Yeah, yeah, I got a rock I have I have a couple of stones. I don’t want to do stone lifting. I have a goal. There’s one that

Scott Hambrick 55:43
I call on your place.

Karl Schudt 55:46
Well, yep, I need I need to be able to lift it,

Scott Hambrick 55:50
I should lift a bunch of that cable in the ground for you. You go down there and start working on that cable. 11 minutes later, you’re looking for that outhouse.

Karl Schudt 56:03
Well, technically, you don’t need an outhouse is the good balance.

Scott Hambrick 56:07
When I was a young person, and we used to hunt and be outside a lot, he always wanted to make sure you’d had your back against a tree or something. So your buddy wouldn’t kick you over backwards in it. Yeah, because that’s no fun.

Karl Schudt 56:29
Yeah, defecate in the forest is a skill that if you if the first time you do it, you’re, you’re gonna have a little trouble.

Scott Hambrick 56:38
If you defecate in the woods, your buddy doesn’t kick you over backwards in it. Did it really happen?

Karl Schudt 56:51
It’s been a long time since I since I did that. And do not use to leave three. Ah, you’ll have a really bad summer.

Scott Hambrick 57:02
Well, we’re two hours and 20 minutes in here. I don’t know. We got it all. We didn’t get it all. But

Karl Schudt 57:10
no, he’s got interesting things about food emancipation at the end, that a lot of this stuff is when you start thinking this way. You start seeing waste, and my waste, I mean, land that is being underutilized. And you might not care in times of plenty. I think we’re not going to be in times of plenty very much longer. But it’s wasteful anyway, you know, the suburban yard offends me. I spent 20 years momentous thing and haven’t gotten anything I can eat out of it. It’s stupid. And there are better ways and you don’t have to. Maybe you don’t even raise all the livestock. Maybe you just flip the switch your mind you say you know what? I should grow some stuff.

Scott Hambrick 57:54
Yeah. It’d be a better life. Or maybe you don’t even want to grow anything you’ll eat better buy something for somebody who grows stuff. Like find somebody who does this kind of thing and give them some of your money instead of you know, Tyson or Archer Daniels Midland or whoever, you know, Archer Daniels Midland supermarket to the world. I learned a few things from this book. I always learned something from his. Some of his other books are really step by step how to guides. Very technical step one, step two. This one isn’t that I kind of I wanted that, you know, because I’m dumb. I’m like, God, give me the answers. Tell me exactly what to do. And he doesn’t do that, like he does in his Polyface designs or pastured poultry profits. But this is probably this is probably a pretty good introduction to Mr. Salatin, you kind of get an idea of the different things that you could do. And then once you figure out which of those you might want to try, he has another title that does a deep dive on his method for that thing, whether it’s rabbits, beef, chickens, composting, whatever, I highly recommend it, go get a subscription to Stockman, grass farmer, go get a subscription to acres USA. Go get a subscription to self reliance. Don’t get one to Mother Earth News. They fired him. So I’m not I’m not going to use them anymore. But there’s information out there. There are some great YouTube channels. He doesn’t have one Southend does not have one but Justin Rhodes often has Saladin on his show, and uses a lot of his methods Justin Rhodes mobile milking parlor is not something Saladin does, but it’s something that Saladin would do and he endorses. You can see how he how he has the cows followed by sheep, followed by chickens. And you can see what he does there. He also keeps us animals on deep bedding, like salad and talks about winter quarters for his animals. So check out Justin Rhodes, Greg Judy regenerative farmer, his channel, Pete, just a few acres farms, his channel is fantastic.

Karl Schudt 1:00:12
Once you subscribe to a few of these, all the rest of them will pop up.

Scott Hambrick 1:00:18
The algorithm will promote to Greg Judy. I just want to hang out with Greg Judy and his like all day. It’s all I want to do.

Karl Schudt 1:00:26
What the point of getting books like this a lot of the stuff in the book might be obvious, but it’s obvious if you know it. It’s not obvious if you don’t, you know. So it’s like having breakfast with salad.

Scott Hambrick 1:00:42
Yeah, I just listened to a few criticisms, Karl. Yes, I’m not into this all the way yet. I’m trying. But I can see a few things that are that are difficult. Saletan and Greg Judy share a lot. And their methods. One of the things they like to do is roll out hay for their cattle in the winter. Uh huh. So you know, you’re probably going to have to feed hay in most parts of the country in the winter, on the homestead scale, you probably are not going to be able to roll out a full bale every day. On a small scale, unrolling hay almost require some sort of a machine, whether it’s a four wheeler or an ATV, or an old Suzuki samurai that you’ve converted to farm use or something. You know, if you’re unrolling hay, from January 10, until you know the end of March or the first part of April, when the spring flush starts, you’re going to have driven all over that 20 acres or that 10 acres that you’re using. If you’re enrolling hay on 16 120 acres, you’re not going to drive or you’re not going to damage your your brows graze as much as you would on a smaller place. And then the problem of the round bale is a problem. You know, you can you can store round bales outside they store well, they’re made for it’s perfect. But if you’ve got 10 head, you don’t need a round bale every day. You don’t want to roll it all out. And you know, so if you buy if you buy, you know the small can deal, I would call it conventional bale. They’re not conventional anymore. But the small bales now you need a barn, you got other handling problems, sir, there are some things that they do that are difficult. You know, he talks about having having grain or having total mix ration for his animals delivered, and he stores them in old tanks, and then move the tanks around when they’re empty. And all that, you know, you can’t on the homestead scale, you can’t do that they’re not going to deliver 1000 pounds or 700 pounds or 500 pounds to you, you’re gonna have an in bags. And that’s gonna mean carrying them out to your animals every day. You know, and when you trample when you’re either driving out there or trampling to go out to see the animals, You’re damaging your pasture. You just are in the winter, in the summer, it’s not that big a deal. But in the winter, in the winter, it is when you’re driving on pasture and getting around you need to you need to treat it like you’re driving on a cornfield. You know, you don’t just drive all over it. So those kinds of things are a problem on the smaller properties. And, you know, getting feed on the smaller properties is a is a is a problem. It’s not insurmountable, but it makes the costs go up. You know, I’m gonna have to figure out the hay problem on 55 acres. It’s not a big deal to Great God for 1600 acres.

Karl Schudt 1:03:42
Well, I’ll be taking notes.

Scott Hambrick 1:03:44
And I well don’t because I’ll do it wrong. Start taking notes in seven years, start taking notes on yours.

Karl Schudt 1:03:53
Well, sometimes you take notes and you say, Oh, for sure.

Scott Hambrick 1:03:55
For sure. You know, one of the things I know that I’ve already screwed up is we built that pond. I talked about it. We built it where an existing pond was, you know, we did what people normally do we built it in a low lying area that was easy to dam that caught runoff. Well, there are some other sites that would have been better. I’m gonna have to work against gravity to get all that water out to the rest of my property property. I would have been better off if I’d have done it somewhere else at a little bigger expense, frankly. But you know, but you gotta do what you got to

Karl Schudt 1:04:39
fill it in and dig another one No.

Scott Hambrick 1:04:41
No, the

Karl Schudt 1:04:45
best of what you got.

Scott Hambrick 1:04:46
Yeah, we’ll do what we’ll do what we can with it. What to do, I don’t want to be one of the people that does it for six years and is out you know, he says that. That that’s the lifespan of the homestead and I don’t want to do that. And I think that getting all that infrastructure stuff right up front, increases my likelihood of being able to stay with it. You know, if you’re, if you’re hauling water every day, you’re gonna burn out, you just can’t do it, it’ll break you. So, you know, getting all the infrastructures, you know, chasing animals that got out, that’ll break you. And you think you’re gonna go do something that day. And you can’t, because you’ve got two cows out, and you can’t find them. You can’t get anything else done that day, it’s stressful heart rates might be somebody gets hurt, it’s terrible. So, you know, working on that infrastructure, getting that right up front is going to be a big deal. And hopefully in keeping us in this game, and in making it a pleasurable way of life and not a miserable debility way of life. Yeah,

Karl Schudt 1:05:54
right. what it’s worth, it’s worth looking at. For you, dear listener, it’s worth looking at. You know, heck, turn the YouTube channels on and turn off the bachelor or whatever it is that I don’t think any of our listeners would watch The Bachelor Do you think?

Scott Hambrick 1:06:18
I hope not, you’ll turn off Yellowstone. Don’t watch Yellowstone. You know? Yeah.

Karl Schudt 1:06:27
Very interesting stuff from people that hate you. And turn on this stuff from people that don’t hate you.

Scott Hambrick 1:06:33
That it minimally don’t think of you? That would be awesome. Yeah, well, there’s that show. Remember, next week, we’re going to talk about not next week, in two weeks, we’ll be talking about No, wait a minute, this will be in part two. So we’ll be next week. That’s right. We’re gonna talk about Robert Hutchins essay, The Great conversation can find that out there on the interwebs. So you can pick that up in volume one of the Encyclopedia Britannica is great books of the Western world set. It’s an interesting thing. I think that have you read it, Karl, have you read it yet?

Karl Schudt 1:07:10
Uh, I think I read it before I need to read it again.

Scott Hambrick 1:07:13
I think that we will probably it will be surprising. I think, your your treatment of it this time, I’ve changed since I read it the last time. We read it recently, and was pretty outraged by some of the stuff in there. So that’ll be cool. And then Dewey will redo he after that. And then the Silmarillion

Karl Schudt 1:07:35
more elves. I believe it to be true history, you know?

Scott Hambrick 1:07:40
Well, what is history, Karl?

Karl Schudt 1:07:45
Well, I don’t know. But I think this is it. It’s the researches is what the word means.

Scott Hambrick 1:07:50
I think it could be true history. And if it’s not, it will be

Karl Schudt 1:07:55
about that. Okay.

Scott Hambrick 1:07:57
Yeah, sure. Yeah. So there’s all of that. Thank you so much for listening, go to online great And sign up there we’ll have an enrollment will be open. For a piece of this episode. I should have mentioned it in the first episode, but we opened it about every 35 days. So always be looking for that if you go click the Join Now button you can get give us your email address. I’m not going to hassle you or anything. But we’ll let you know when enrollment opens next time. So if it’s not open right now, we’ll let you know when it is and you don’t have to go to the website all the time. And we’ll send out a newsletter every now and then to hopefully find is useful. And then when we all get canceled, I could still get hold of you when that be neat. Yeah,


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